Pre-Trib Rapture

The Biggest Threat to Christians is the Teaching of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

In Articles, Believer Perspectives, Commentary, Featured, Videos, Warnings by JD Rucker85 Comments

In many scriptures of the Bible, there is a “falling away” or discussion of great deceptions that are coming to the world. It has been hard for believers in Christ to comprehend the possibility of the masses falling away from Christianity because faith has been a powerful part of society for nearly two millenniums, but we are seeing it today. Moreover, we are seeing the spreading of a seed that will cause further apostasy amongst believers in Yeshua as our Lord and Savior: the myth of a pre-tribulation rapture.

Most who have gone to church in the last hundred years have likely considered the possibility at the very least that the rapture of the church will occur before the tribulation that is spoken of in many books of the Bible, including the Book of Revelation. Some estimates put it at 90% of the Christian church believes in a pre-tribulation rapture. The vast majority of popular churches teach that believers will be called up to Heaven before the tribulation. Simply stated, the Bible does not support this claim.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Yeshua will come in the clouds and call up those who are believers. This will not happen prior to the tribulation. The sun and moon will be darkened, and then He shall return. The majority of churches that teach Imminency, the concept that Jesus will return at any moment and His people will be raptured at that time, point to one verse to counter the argument of signs that will precede His second coming:

Matthew 24:36

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

This is obviously a true statement. It is also one that is completely misunderstood. The fact that we nor anyone else can know the day or the hour does not mean that He can come at any time. Throughout the Gospels and the writings of Paul, we hear of things that must happen before His return. It is not for us to know the day or the hour, but the season will make itself very evident. We will see certain events occur. One of those series of events are known as the Great Tribulation.

Why It Is Believed

The simply answer when asking why so many people, even “educated” church leaders, is that we want to believe it. It’s human nature to want to avoid persecution, war, sickness, and beheadings, all of which are spoken of as parts of the tribulation. If someone of authority tells us that we will not have to go through these things as long as we believe, it’s a message that can resonate. Those who hear the truth, that we may be living in the end times and that as a result many of us will go through great suffering due to our faith – it’s just not as positive of a message.

The not-so-simple answer is that Satan is push this as part of his agenda. It is Satan the rules the earth. His goal is to pull as many people away from the faith as possible, which is why he and his minions began deceiving Christians at their core starting in the early 19th century with the doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture. He has brought about and continues to bring about waves of deceptions to pull people away from even considering the Word of the Bible, but this particular deception is to attack those who are wanting to be strong in their faith. It’s designed to shake the spirits of the believers to the point of non-belief.

Think about it. If you make people believe that they are not going to face suffering, that they are “special” and will avoid all of the troubles that will engulf the world, then they are weakened as a result. They will not be ready. When the tribulation does begin and they’re still on this planet going through it, they will begin to question their own faith. They will not be prepared to fight against persecution. They will be more willing to be deceived in order to save their lives. They will be more open to deceptions of the Anti-Christ. They will be more likely to worship the false messiah to take his mark in order to buy and sell. They will see the formation of the one world government, the one world economy, and the single world leader and they will do so more willingly than those who have their eyes open.

This is arguably the greatest deception that Satan has pulled off thus far.

Why Churches Teach It

Building a church is not as black and white for most as it is for others. It’s much easier to build one with a happy message than to try to build one through promises of fire and brimstone, persecution and suffering. There are those sitting in the seats of church leadership who realize that a pre-tribulation rapture is not correct but they continue to preach it in fear that their congregation will shrink or disappear altogether if they go against the grain.

As with any man-made organization, the Christian church world has a “club” amongst the leaders. There are those who are in the club and those who are not in the club. Those who are in the club are able to speak at events, sell books, build up an online following, and prosper as a church. Those who are not in the club have a much harder time finding relevance in this world. Today, the club is made up of pre-tribulation rapture teachers. If you’re not preaching a pre-tribulation rapture, you can’t be in the club.

It’s a catch-22 for many. Not all do it because of ignorance or greed. There are those who teach it because they feel that a message that can resonate with more people is better than a message that alienates many. In other words, they realize that they are not teaching this particular issue properly but if they can misinterpret this one little point, they’ll be able to get the other important messages out to more people. It’s a misguided honorable sentiment that is actually more dangerous than not reaching the people at all. We believe there is a likelihood that many people will fall away in the last days, but others will open their eyes as well. If they open their eyes and start reading the Bible, they will see what they had missed their whole lives and will have an opportunity to head down the right path before it’s too late. If, however, they are weakened by expectations of a pre-tribulation rapture, it will be more difficult to bring them back to the truth.

Debating the Issue

It is sad when I read some of the assertions of those who continue to fight the truth of post-tribulation rapture. They are often excellent writers or orators fighting from a misguided perspective. For example, in the book Triumphant Return by Grant Jeffrey, he states:

Several incorrect premises have caused some to reject the pretribulation Rapture and accept the position called the “postribulation Rapture.” The first premise is an emotional contention that it would be unfair for the modern Church to escape to heaven scot free to escape the martyrdom that other believers have experienced.

In all of our studies of those promoting a post-tribulation rapture, I have never heard this premise before. It’s appalling that Jeffrey would lead with such a poor premise, as if trying to mislead the readers into believing that the post-tribulation doctrine is so weak that those who believe in it are emotional and ignorant simpletons.  Below, you will see videos of people who have formed their doctrine based solely on the Word of the Bible, who make it crystal clear that a post-tribulation rapture is without a doubt the reality, and that the theory of a pre-tribulation rapture is damaging to those to which it is taught.

The Words of Jesus Christ should be the resounding end of any debate that He will return before the tribulation:

Matthew 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There are other verses that also make it clear, but this is obviously the most specific. There are those who will say this is referring only to the Jews. There are those who will use charts and graphs to convince you of a pre-tribulation rapture. They will point to interpretations by Darby, Ephraem the Syrian, and Scofield as proof. Do not be misled.

Rather than point to the evidence or attempt to debate the concept, I will defer to a few people who have done more research on the subject than me. Please take the time to watch these videos and share this article. It’s important that believers are prepared for what’s to come. Whether it’s today or in a thousand years, we cannot allow people to be guided down a path that can lead them to be part of the falling away the Jesus spoke of in His ministry. We must open our eyes, see the truth, and spread it to all that we can.

Here are also some links to other articles about the pre-tribulation rapture:

 

 

(This article is part of the Compassion and Fear Series)

Comments

  1. [Thanks, JD. Great blog. Wondering if you have perhaps seen the following. I found it on the web not long ago. Lord bless, keep plugging away!]

    Stages of Pretrib Rapture History

    If a young woman in Scotland hadn’t dreamed up the “pre-tribulation fly-away” in 1830; if a British clergyman hadn’t hijacked her dream and sneakily planted it around the world in the 1800s; if a crooked, jailed-for-forgery lawyer with no theological background hadn’t come out with a reference Bible in 1909 with the same fly-away escapism in marginal notes; and if modern-day rapture robber barons and tribulational tycoons hadn’t found numerous ways (and gimmicks like four “blood moons”) to widely mass-market the same delicious delusion for the masses while breaking sales records, no one could now be into the moonshine, looking up at the moon and saying “Moon, you mush be drunk becaush I shee four of you!” LOL (If none of this had ever happened, no one would have written anti-pretrib articles that are on Google etc., articles like “Evangelicals Use Occult Deception,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” “Pretrib Rapture Pride,” and “Pretrib Rapture Stealth.” And no one would have written “The Rapture Plot” – the most accurate, most detailed, and most highly endorsed nonfiction history of the 184-year-old pretrib rapture theory, available by calling 800.643.4645; the author of it will give $1000 to anyone proving there is any deliberate dishonesty in it.)

    1. I don’t understand the notion that the Pre-tribulation Rapture Theory came about, “184” years ago when Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD), an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples, wrote back then, on the subject of the Rapture, (in Against Heresies 5.29)

      “Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;”(1) so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”

      Based on what he wrote, I’d say the idea is just a tad bit older. That doesn’t mean the idea is correct but just an opinion held by others by a considerable length longer than the aforementioned 184 years. Ultimately, it should not matter what the opinion, one thing is true – we must live wholeheartedly for our Lord Jesus and reject the things of this world.
      We need to spread the message of Jesus for He only can save. Our hope is in Him alone regardless of when the rapture actually occurs.

      1. I don’t see anything Irenaeus statement that indicates a pretrib rapture,in fact the words it being the last contest of the righteous would say to me the last contest is the tribulation.

      2. Where is there a mention of a PreTrib rapture? He says that the tribulation will be the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they have overcome, are crowned. Please take off your PreTrib sunglasses.

        1. I’d like the address to the piece you ran across if I could please! I’d may agree on it. But, would have to read it all first! Thanks

          1. Sue,
            This is a quote used by Owen in an attempt to prove that Iranaeus taught a PreTrib rapture. It is from “Against Heresies 5.29”
            I don’t understand the notion that the Pre-tribulation Rapture Theory came about, “184” years ago when Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD), an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples, wrote back then, on the subject of the Rapture, (in Against Heresies 5.29)

            “Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;”(1) so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”
            No mention of a PreTrib rapture. There shall be tribulation…this is the last contest of the righteous…overcomers are crowned.

      3. You’ve simply misinterpreted Iranaeus’ words because of your preconceived opinion. It does not mean that the church will be caught up and AWAY from the tribulation. It means that; after the tribulation – the last contest of the righteous, the church shall be caught up.

    2. Benny, I have nevere heard of any woman with this view from the early 1800′. I have heard and know about a man in that time who decide being caught up was meant to mean before the Trib. It says nothing in scripture about this, accept that we will be caught up with him when Jesus returns for those who are already dead in Christ and for those of us still alive. Prior to this one cannot find any references to the Pre rapture or even the term. John Harris

    3. Here is my rebuttal that the Rapture is a “new” idea. Did you know that Paul taught the Thessalonians that the rapture of the Church would precede the End Times judgments? Please allow me to explain.

      By most accounts Paul stayed in Thessalonica for only about 3 weeks and during that time he founded a Church and taught them the doctrines of salvation and sanctification, the Trinity, the nature of man, the assurance of pardon, and the Day of the Lord. He continued teaching them after he left by sending them his first letter, written from Corinth in 51 AD, in which he introduced the doctrine of the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). Shortly after that they received another letter appearing to be from him, announcing that the Day of the Lord had come. It was a forgery. They reacted with fear and confusion and immediately sought clarification. The following is Paul’s response:

      “Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus and our being gathered to Him, we ask you brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy report or letter supposed to have come from us saying that the Day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let any one deceive you in any way for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3)

      From Paul’s response it’s clear the letter they were concerned about had been a forgery, sent by someone pretending to be Paul and designed to frighten them. It worked. The Greek words for unsettle and alarm literally mean to agitate, incite, and frighten. Something in the letter had contradicted their understanding of Paul’s teaching and the Thessalonians were upset. Reading this passage from 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 we see that the forgery must have disputed Paul’s teaching on events leading up to the Day of the Lord. This is the only logical explanation for Paul’s 2nd letter to the Thessalonians.

      More importantly, notice that right from the beginning Paul delineated and separated the phrases “coming of the Lord” from “our being gathered to Him”. That’s because they are two different events. We can’t tell their relative timing from this, but we can tell they’re not the same thing. The Second Coming (at the end of the 7 Year Tribulation) is when Jesus comes back down to Earth to be with His people here, while from 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 we know the rapture has us going up to meet Him in the air, and continuing to Heaven to be with Him there (John 14:2-3). The 2nd coming will be witnessed by everyone (Matt. 24:30), but the rapture is an instantaneous disappearance of believers only (1 Corinthians 15:51-52) that happens without warning.

      Unfortunately, JD Rucker (the author of the article above) doesn’t understand that Matthew 24:36 (as well as the entire Olivet Discourse) is a passage not meant for the Church (which was not even created yet. That happened at Pentecost.) and has NOTHING to do with the Rapture. Matt. 24:36 is talking about the return of Christ, at the end of the Great Tribulation.

      Unless astute Bible teachers understand the difference between the Rapture and the 2nd Coming of Christ, they will continue to print false information about the timing of the Rapture.

      1. Wrong, brother. You read all of that in a book of lies that some guy wrote and made a million $$$$

    4. Here is my rebuttal that the Rapture is a “new” idea. Did you know that Paul taught the Thessalonians that the rapture of the Church would precede the End Times judgments? Please allow me to explain.

      By most accounts Paul stayed in Thessalonica for only about 3 weeks and during that time he founded a Church and taught them the doctrines of salvation and sanctification, the Trinity, the nature of man, the assurance of pardon, and the Day of the Lord. He continued teaching them after he left by sending them his first letter, written from Corinth in 51 AD, in which he introduced the doctrine of the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). Shortly after that they received another letter appearing to be from him, announcing that the Day of the Lord had come. It was a forgery. They reacted with fear and confusion and immediately sought clarification. The following is Paul’s response:

      “Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus and our being gathered to Him, we ask you brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy report or letter supposed to have come from us saying that the Day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let any one deceive you in any way for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3)

      From Paul’s response it’s clear the letter they were concerned about had been a forgery, sent by someone pretending to be Paul and designed to frighten them. It worked. The Greek words for unsettle and alarm literally mean to agitate, incite, and frighten. Something in the letter had contradicted their understanding of Paul’s teaching and the Thessalonians were upset. Reading this passage from 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 we see that the forgery must have disputed Paul’s teaching on events leading up to the Day of the Lord. This is the only logical explanation for Paul’s 2nd letter to the Thessalonians.

      More importantly, notice that right from the beginning Paul delineated and separated the phrases “coming of the Lord” from “our being gathered to Him”. That’s because they are two different events. We can’t tell their relative timing from this, but we can tell they’re not the same thing. The Second Coming (at the end of the 7 Year Tribulation) is when Jesus comes back down to Earth to be with His people here, while from 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 we know the rapture has us going up to meet Him in the air, and continuing to Heaven to be with Him there (John 14:2-3). The 2nd coming will be witnessed by everyone (Matt. 24:30), but the rapture is an instantaneous disappearance of believers only (1 Corinthians 15:51-52) that happens without warning.

      Unfortunately, JD Rucker (the author of the article above) doesn’t understand that Matthew 24:36 (as well as the entire Olivet Discourse) is a passage not meant for the Church (which was not even created yet. That happened at Pentecost.) and has NOTHING to do with the Rapture. Matt. 24:36 is talking about the return of Christ, at the end of the Great Tribulation.

      Unless astute Bible teachers understand the difference between the Rapture and the 2nd Coming of Christ, they – like JD Rucker – will continue to print false information about the timing of the Rapture.

      1. All these experts — I just know what the Holy Spirit has confirmed by reading the Bible more than a few times — Pre-Trib is dangerous for many will wonder why they didn’t get raptured when things start to get rough — Pre-wrath is the best term because it happens shortly after the anti-christ “sits where he ought not” — I’d sure rather be wrong and be strong than be of those that say ” my Lord delayeth His comming and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidservants — I’m burdened to edit first page of our web site to warn people more of how dangerous the men pleaser pre-trib teaching is — pray I can work through this affliction long enough to do this and hopefully find a local church who hasn’t given into men-pleasing for I will only be prayed over by those that listen to the Spirit closely . Keep the faith — evangeagain.org — Evange Again after you understand sound doctrine — which most won’t endure the bible says

    5. Rev.20 ver. 4,5 confirm post trib rapture. We who are alive will not prevent those who are asleep in Christ. There is one first resurrection,one second coming, one rapture,obviously a simultaneous event.

    6. I understand your message concerning the Pre-Tribulation belief. It is as you say: “There are those who teach it because they feel that a message that can resonate with more people is better than a message that alienates many. ” Remember that we live in a pick and choose scriptural society. It is as if people can only see what they are prepared to see and no more.

      Also, the Bible, by all accounts, is the most sold book in modern times, yet fewer people actually read it. That is a sad commentary on our present day society. We need to be more like the Bereans, examining the scriptures daily. Keep up the great work you are doing for the Lord, may God bless.

  2. Greetings,
    I agree with most of your opinions on this website due to the Scriptural backing of your beliefs. Unfortunately, the video I watched about pre-tribulation rapture not being possible looked more like a smear campaign by a greasy politician. Instead of seeing strong Scriptural evidence against pre-tribulation rapture all I saw was a guy discrediting the idea and those who supported it. I believe there are many verses that would strongly support pre-trib. and if you look at Greek text it also supports many of the verses. Before breeding hate messages remember that the Bible is never 100% clearly stated whether it happens before or after tribulation so at least be tolerant to both sides. This is not a crucial thing that will determine whether we make it to heaven, it is the blood of Christ.

    1. Author

      You’re not the only one who did not like the videos and I’m regretting including them. It’s challenging sometimes to try to spread a doctrine by relying on others because I can see some validity in some of the messages but rarely all of them. We will work on a follow up that is more based on scripture and less reliant on others’ videos.

  3. Thanks for the article,the Lord has shown me some time ago that the pre -trib rapture was false. Maybe I can help with a couple of misunderstandings concerning the timing of the “rapture”. This will not happen for believers until after the thousand year reign of Yeshua. The gathering together from the four winds is speaking of bringing those saints who will return with the Lord when He destroys those who destroy the earth.They are not yet those who are caught up with the Lord that will be forever with the Lord. They are gathered from the four winds of heaven not from the earth,also read the parable of the wheat and tares, which are gathered first?The wicked are gathered together from the earth and cast into the fire , the wheat is not gathered until the after wicked are dealt with ! Something I never seem to hear anyone talk about is the fact that the Lord will rule and reign for a thousand years after the wicked one is bound with that great chain.Whom do we think He is going to rule over? Remember it shall be as in the days of Noah?He with his children were left to repopulate the earth.Just some things to think about,it may open up your understanding if you can look up some of these scriptures and ask the Lord for understanding ; Matthew 24:28,Rev.19:17-21,Rev.16:12-16. Peace, John

    1. THANK YOU. NOW I KNOW I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE TO BELIEVE THIS!!!! I keep seeing this, but then don’t hear anyone else talk about it, so then I start thinking I’m wrong. So Thank you again. What a relief someone else is seeing the same thing! 🙂 And the only ones you see in Heaven is the ones who have been martyred, at least until the end!!! I keep asking pre-tribers if the Church is taken in pre-trib, then why doesn’t it mention the church, no it just mentions those who were in Great Tribulation, and the early martyrs!

      1. Hi Suez. If you read Revelation, the church is mentioned 19 times in Chapters 1-3, then not again until Chapter 19. As well, Chapter 4 and 5 shows the Church ALREADY in Heaven. Why? Because they’ve already been Raptured. Chapter 6 begins with the Antichrist (caring a bow but no arrows) striking a peace deal with Israel. This begins the final 7 Year Period.

        Who are the white-washed martyrs? They are the ones who gave their life for their faith. How do we know they are not the Church? For one, they are still on the earth (while the Church is in Heaven). But also, they serve at the feet of Christ. We, the Church, sit at the right hand of Christ. MAJOR DIFFERENCE!

        Lastly, what would be God’s reason for including the Church (aka The Bride of Christ) in any part of the final 7 years? For salvation? No, we’ve already been judged and justified. For punishment? We are the Bride of Christ, getting ready to be married to Jesus. Why would He punish us, when in Rev. 3:10, he said, “Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.”

        I respect your opinion, but remember that in the last days, False Teacher are EVERYWHERE. And many of them are preaching false teachings about the rapture, and for some strange reason, want to persecute Christians.

        However, from my extensive study of the Word, the Bible is clear in it’s teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture.

        Anyway, I do hope I’ve shed some new light on this subject.

        In Him. Michael

        1. Beautifully said. I would like to add the following text. This is not the Bride of Christ, but those that came out of the Great Tribulation. This is why the apostle John did not know who they were, because he knows that the Bride is raptured before the Great Tribulation. Otherwise, why would John respond to the elder the way he did, if he knew that the Church was going to go through the Great Tribulation like some speculate?
          Revelation 7: 13-17
          13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

          This is not the Bride(Church). They that come out of the Great Tribulation are not in the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. That privilege is for those that are Raptured.

          This is for the Church.
          Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

  4. Pretrib Rapture Pride

    by Bruce Rockwell

    Pretrib rapture promoters like Thomas Ice give the impression they know more than the early Church Fathers, the Reformers, the greatest Greek New Testament scholars including those who produced the KJV Bible, the founders of their favorite Bible schools, and even their own mentors!
    Ice’s mentor, Dallas Sem. president John Walvoord, couldn’t find anyone holding to pretrib before 1830 – and Walvoord called John Darby and his Brethren followers “the early pretribulationists” (RQ, pp. 160-62). Ice belittles Walvoord and claims that several pre-1830 persons, including “Pseudo-Ephraem” and a “Rev. Morgan Edwards,” taught a pretrib rapture. Even though the first one viewed Antichrist’s arrival as the only “imminent” event, Ice (and Grant Jeffrey) audaciously claim he expected an “imminent” pretrib rapture! And Ice (and John Bray) have covered up Edwards’ historicism which made a pretrib rapture impossible! Google historian Dave MacPherson’s “Deceiving and Being Deceived” for documentation on these and similar historical distortions.
    The same pretrib defenders, when combing ancient books, deviously read “pretrib” into phrases like “before Armageddon,” “before the final conflagration,” and “escape all these things”!
    BTW, the KJV translators’ other writings found in London’s famed British Library (where MacPherson has researched) don’t have even a hint of pretrib rapturism. Is it possible that Ice etc. have found pretrib “proof” in the KJV that its translators never found?
    Pretrib merchandisers like Ice claim that nothing is better pretrib proof than Rev. 3:10. They also cover up “Famous Rapture Watchers” (on Google) which shows how the greatest Greek NT scholars of all time interpreted it.
    Pretrib didn’t flourish in America much before the 1909 Scofield Bible which has pretribby “explanatory notes” in its margins. Not seen in the margins was jailed forger Scofield’s criminal record throughout his life that David Lutzweiler has documented in his recent book “The Praise of Folly” which is available online.
    Biola University’s doctrinal statement says Christ’s return is “premillennial” and “before the Tribulation.” Although universities stand for “academic freedom,” Biola has added these narrow, restrictive phrases – non-essentials the founders purposely didn’t include in their original doctrinal statement when Biola was just a small Bible institute! And other Christian schools have also belittled their founders.
    Ice, BTW, has a “Ph.D” issued by a tiny Texas school that wasn’t authorized to issue degrees! Ice now says that he’s working on another “Ph.D” via the University of Wales in Britain. For light on the degrees of Ice’s scholarliness, Google “Bogus degree scandal prompts calls to wind up University of Wales,” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “be careful in polemics – Peripatetic Learning,” “Walvoord Melts Ice,” and “Thomas Ice (Hired Gun).”
    Other fascinating Google articles include “The Unoriginal John Darby,” “X-raying Margaret,” “Edward Irving is Unnerving,” “Pretrib Rapture Politics,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrets,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy,” and “Roots of Warlike Christian Zionism” – most from the author of “The Rapture Plot,” the most accurate documentation on pretrib rapture history.
    Can anyone guess who the last proud pretrib rapture holdout will be?
    (Postscript: For another jolt or two Google “The Background Obama Can’t Cover Up.”)

    / the foregoing was observed on the amazing and wonderful web. blessings on all. /

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    1. Author

      It’s challenging to find a church that is willing to not teach a pre-tribulation rapture. It’s simply “bad for business” and can shrink a congregation. I’m not saying that they’re doing so without perceived justification. Most are simply misled. Others know the truth but are trying to keep the pews filled. These churches likely feel that the overall message of the Gospel taught to a wider range of people is a worthwhile trade-off if at the cost of discussing a false doctrine every now and then. We disagree with that mentality.

      The point is can learn the truth about the rapture online and still go to churches that teach a pre-tribulation message. It’s not ideal, but doing so can present opportunities to guide some people to the truth. If you’re not comfortable with that approach, we would recommend emailing local churches and simply asking if they teach about a pre-tribulation rapture. It’s not necessarily a time to argue (unless you’re led to do so). It’s simply an inquiry.

      Sorry for the late and ambiguous reply but it’s a challenge without a clear cut answer.

    2. Start with a small discussion with fellow believers and then gradually..it will catch up….But be sure to get the serious believers into the discussion…Don’t get the lukewarm ones…It is a dangerous virus which can damage your enthusiasm

  8. This is the best message on this topic I have ever heard in my life,I am just so impressed by this message I would never ever even try to compete with this message its really that great.Thank you pastor Tim

  9. Great article. I have only just begun researching the pre-trib rapture theory. I had never thought about it much before now because I didn’t think it was that important. I always knew just from reading the bible that there was no such thing as a pre-trib rapture but I never really thought too much about it because the few times I mentioned it to others I would be accused of being “divisive” and so being a fairly young Christian at the time, I thought I was. Years passed and I’m much older now and recently felt a stirring in my spirit to research and be able to explain why a pre-trib rapture is just not true. I’ve been writing about it on my blog – http://lordthouknowestallthings.blogspot.com

  10. Great article! I probably wouldn’t have used Anderson to prove your points, as many think he is a kook! Kinda hateful, arrogant, and ruff around the edges. Personally, I haven’t much against him, but a lot of people I know do. I will check out the other guy, as I haven’t heard of him. Thanks again for a great article!

    1. Author

      You’re spot on about Anderson, but many of his arguments are sound. Sometimes his “in your face” style is required to open eyes. I admit I was hesitant about the choice.

  11. Well said JDR. I have gone full circle, from not knowing about the teaching to embracing it once I learnt of it to as I stand now rejecting it…it is a deception! Its alright for the Creator to experience suffering persecution and horrific but no not for the modern so called Christian. Frankly if you believe in the pre-trib rapture…you are gutless, yes that’s what I say gutless. You are soft and you want the twinkkie way into eternal life. You don’t want to have to suffer, just a cheap fastfood order of Christianity and eternal salvation to go please…hold the onions. I understand that nothing comes easy, Christ has said.. He who ENDURES to the end, He also said DONT BE DECEIVED. If you are dead in Christ.. then you await your judgement, if you are alive you either wait for death or TRIBULATION.

    1. Author

      I agree but I do not believe it’s universal. I know of people who studied hard and were willing to accept what God put onto us in the form of tribulation, but who still fell under the deception. We cannot underestimate the adversary’s cunning and guile in placing this deception in front of man.

    2. Jarred. So, this is your rationale for a mid or post-tribulation Rapture, that this generation of Christians are soft and gutless, and need to suffer for their faith? Not only is that 100% NOT Biblical but it makes no sense. Only someone living in the “cushy” US, and having no idea of the massive amount of martyrdom happening right now around the world (where every five minutes a Believer is martyred for their faith) would make such a ridiculous claim. In reality, over the past 2,000 years, over 50 million Christians have died for their faith, and our current generation is no exception.

      Christ’s Great Commission is to spread the Gospel around the world, not to give your life for your faith. For those who do, they receive Crowns in Heaven. But those of us who do not go through tribulation aren’t punished for it, nor are we any less of a Believer.

      Quite frankly, I find your indignation and overall bile toward the Body of Christ a bit troubling.

      The reason for the final 7 year period of Tribulation is to bring the Jews to belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah, then to usher in the Millennial Kingdom.

      It’s NOT to punish the Church.

      Of course, if you disagree – and I’m sure you will – please feel free to direct me to a specific scripture, to support your case. If you can’t, then I’ll assume this is only your opinion, and that we should treat it as such.

      Look forward to your comments.

      In Christ…Michael

      1. Great comment. I would also like to add, that Jesus said that when the Gospel was preached to everyone, then the end shall come. Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Jesus always spoke of escaping, not enduring the Great Tribulation. Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Listen to what Jesus says to those that go through the Great Tribulation. Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. The Church is in heaven. Those that preach and teach that the Church will go through the Great Tribulation are deceiving the people with a lie. Right now, there are Christians in Muslim countries being persecuted. Tell them that they haven’t suffered for Christ.

        It’s God pouring down His wrath on the world. During this period, God will also deal with the Jews. The Church, will be in heaven for 7 years in the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. The Church is the Lord’s Jesus Bride. The Great Tribulation is what the bible calls Jacob’s trouble; Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

    1. Author

      We are all responsible for learning and applying the teachings of the Bible, Jesus Christ, and His chosen vessels first and foremost. Then, we must do what we can to share His Gospel to those we can touch. However that manifests itself is His will, not the will of a school or even a church.

  12. Pingback: Open Your Mind About the Pre-Tribulation Rapture

  13. Pingback: 'But of that day and hour knoweth no man' - Matthew 24 Study and the Implications for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

  14. Pingback: Why We aren't 'Preppers' Who Store Food, Gold, Guns, or Ammunition

  15. REVELATION 20:4

    People simply haven’t been reading their Bibles!

    The antichrist comes on the 6th trumpet while Jesus the Christ of Nazareth returns at the sound of the “LAST” trumpet.

    The scriptures state, “that my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge” UNQUOTE

    >>>>> PLEASE WAKE UP <<<<<

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  17. Pingback: Exposing Why the Pre-Trib Rapture Doctrine will Deceive Many

  18. I would agree that most who believe in pretrib are just believing in what they were told and never really asked God about it and studied their bibles for themselves which is probably the majority of Christians which is why its so popular.

  19. Thank you for speaking out! I agree the pre-tribulation rapture is a threat to Christians as it is NOT the victorious Testimony of Jesus Christ we are destined for. It amazes me the body of Christ has been so deceived by false prophecy but what amazes me even more is that I was one of them so I understand what a powerful delusion it is. Yet if you just start with what is simple, lies can be disproved by faith that Jesus Christ is not a liar and believing He was speaking plainly when He said several times that He will raise us up on the last day. He told the same thing to Daniel in his day. It is only by man-made rubbish like dispensation church age theology that adds and takes away words that they are able to deceive so many. But again, if we start with something simple as when Jesus said in John 10:16 “there shall be one shepherd and one flock”, that Truth alone should dispense with dispensation nonsense. Yet these are the same who boast about how they take the Word of God literally. Yes, I thought I did too because they told me so in the pages of their worthless books. They can add all of the Vulcan logic they want about this meaning or that but the Truth is the Truth and it is as clear as crystal. So it comes down to this. You can place what is alien to God and what a man’s says in your heart and call it God’s Word or you can believe everything God says even if you don’t have a chart that figures it all out for you. I tell you the Truth, God will teach you. You don’t have to learn their logic, deep secrets or complicated hermeneutics and you will not need to ask God which words you should keep to very last day indeed. Just keep every Word as His Word is Truth! This desire is given to us by the mercy and grace of God as we receive His kingdom that is within us as He is the Gift of God to us.

    Brothers and sisters here is another problem. I agree with the premise of these videos regarding the pre-trib rapture. Yet I am condemned by the first man (Jim Staley) because I am not going pretend I am following the Torah and his version of the festivals and Sabbath law of God. I know Jesus as the son of God who lived and died for me and not another Jesus with a Hebrew name in order to be saved. Jesus is the full measure of my faith, my Sabbath and I am set free from any man’s condemnation by Christ in me. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Law, the Passover, the Temple and every sacrifice, every article therein and every feast and festival and our command is to follow Jesus Christ and worship God in Spirit and Truth. Jesus Christ is my passion for Truth. I am also condemned by the second guy (Steven Andersen) because I am not a KJV only fanatic as he is and some are and by his standard I would probably burn as he burned the NIV scriptures I read and I have read and compared the KJV and NIV and yet the Holy Spirit does not speak to me in the King’s English as well as in my native tongue. I adore the Truth of God who lives in me and Jesus is my Word of Truth. I am condemned by the pre-tribulation fanatics because I don’t follow their false prophecy either. Why do wicked men add their own yeast so the Word of God is brought into disrepute? I know Jesus or Yeshua or whatever name by which men call the only begotten Holy One and Son of God who lived and died for ALL. I know His Name and when He returns He will be called by a New Name and that Name is the Word of God and I can assure you that His Name is not going to be the KJV only for some or a Hebrew or Greek Name for others because we shall All have His Name written upon us no man knows but He himself. His Name is the seal of God upon us. Make sure you know His Name.

    While all of these, pre-trib believers, KJV only believers, Hebrew roots believers may in turn have a bold witness for Christ and for that they should be commended but God rebukes and disciplines those He loves for not speaking Life in Truth and in Love and judgment is coming first to the house of God to uproot out of His kingdom every fruitless tree and weed that has placed any name before God’s Word. We all need to eat the unleavened bread of God’s Word.

    Ponder on this question. Do you truly think that Paul only wrote 12 or so letters over his 30 year ministry and that the other apostles wrote nothing that we have not heard from? They did write most certainly and I can assure you by the authority God gave them they spoke the Word of God. What we have preserved as scripture is pure and perfect but do not presume that that Word of Life was not also made perfect in the other disciples from whom we have not received any letters handed down or that there is some scrap of a letter from Paul we don’t have that would change what we have received in any way. What I am saying is that what is written on paper survived because God intended it and it shows that the Testimony of Jesus Christ was spread by these seemingly small clouds but there is a great cloud of witnesses who have always endured that we know nothing about who each day speak the Truth. So I can say to you that by the authority God has given me that what I am telling you is the Word of God. The Word of God is never contrary to scriptures and it is a fountain of eternal life that flows within us. Do not give your authority over to men to lead you.

    If you can prove me a liar I will repent otherwise you can see the Word of God will come to live in you. And if Jesus Christ does not live in you then you have failed the test and His Holy Spirit is not in you. Amen!

    Eric

    1. Hi Eric,

      My name is also Eric, but I use the name eaglet whenever I join in sharing my thoughts on blogs and commentaries on different prophecy websites. By the name eaglet itself tells much of my youth on the study of the Word of God, and it even holds true to my walk as a struggling christian for I have not been living victoriously yet for the Lord Jesus Christ and just trusting on His grace that someday, I may honor Him in my life.

      I felt the grace of God in your spirit as you share your thoughts and concerns about the coming deceptions, and the confusion and disorder in the Body of Christ in handling the Word of Truth.

      I have posted my comments here on several topics, and I wanted to know your comments on it, just wanting to know if my insights are from the Holy Spirit or from the evil one. I sense that you have the right kind of spirit to test my insights and views. Please read the following scriptures, so you would know what principle I am coming from:

      Matthew 16:15-17
      15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

      Few verses after…

      Matthew 16:22-23
      22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!” (seems so sincere and has the right motive)

      23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

      So I hope guided with the above principle, I would receive a Holy Spirit led comments and rebuke from you.

      Let us put all the puzzle pieces together as One Body in Christ, and tell others about the Truth and the Hope that we have from our Lord Jesus Christ.

      God Bless.

      eaglet

      PS – My admiration also to JD Rucker for handling all the commentaries with much grace, patience, humility, discernment, understanding, and meekness

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  21. Pingback: John 16:33 - 'ye shall have tribulation"

  22. Great article and video. I don’t see how these video are “offensive”. Compare these with john macarthur and charles lawson. They did great sermons except when it comes to rapture. They claim there is no refrence to chruch in revelation 5-18 and matthew 24 is about Jews. But they cannot one single solid paragraph of scripture of pre trib rapture of church. They never metion revelation 7:14(came out of tribution, see http://biblehub.com/greek/1537.htm, this includes people of all nation) If dispenstionalism is true, what about those who are half jewish origin, or 10%, 20%,80%,99.99%,0.01% jewish origin??? Are they gentile or jews? Are they gone before tribulation?

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  24. [Check out this little “earthquake” that I came upon while on the net.]

    Pretrib Rapture – how WHAT becomes WHEN

    Certain rapture verses in the Bible are a WHATers paradise!

    WHATers can dazzle their audience with a lot of WHAT WHAT WHAT between Gen. 1:1 and Rev. 22:21 and, while you’re not noticing, quickly sneak in their own WHEN of the rapture and ignore the Bible’s WHEN!

    WHATers read all of the WHAT details in I Thess. 4:13-18, emphasize the “comfort one another” at the end, and say something like “What a comforting thought that the rapture can happen at any moment BEFORE the tribulation!”

    They often add: “It wouldn’t be comforting if we had to face the Antichrist.” (Maybe they believe a lighthouse wouldn’t be comforting to sailors on a dark, stormy night but only when the sun is shining!)

    WHATers avoid the next chapter (I Thess. 5) which says that the rapture’s “times and seasons” happen WHEN “sudden destruction” (the “destruction” part of the “day of the Lord”) happens.

    (How can the wicked be destroyed before, or during, the time of their tribulational “reign”? Even their leader, the Antichrist, isn’t destroyed until the trib’s end!)

    Now look at I Cor. 15:51-54. WHATers have a blast with the first half. They dwell on “mystery,” read “in a moment” as if it really means “AT ANY MOMENT,” spend an inordinate amount of time explaining how fast the “twinkling of an eye” is, and try to prove that “last” (in “the last trump”) doesn’t really mean “last”!

    Seldom do WHATers dare to reveal WHEN we are changed into immortal bodies – but verse 54 dares to when it says our rapturous change occurs WHEN WHEN WHEN “Death is swallowed up” (same as “ended”).

    Obviously the trib’s time of death can’t be ended before, or even during, the trib!

    And WHATers don’t want you to realize that the “Death” quote is a paraphrase of Isa. 25:8 which even Scofield etc. agree is in a posttrib setting!

    II Thess. 1:6-10 is further proof that our rapture (“rest” in vs. 7) happens WHEN the wicked are destroyed – and not several years ahead of time!

    And Acts 2:34-35 and Acts 3:21 declare that Christ must stay in heaven UNTIL He comes down to earth to destroy the wicked (make them His “footstool”) and restore “all things” – so how can He leave heaven ahead of time for a pretrib rapture?

    II Tim. 3:14 says we should “vet” our teachers (“knowing of whom thou hast learned them”). You can do this if you Google or Yahoo “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty” and “Left Behind or Led Astray?” (on You Tube).

    What I’m wondering is this: WHEN will everyone wake up and realize that a lot of WHAT will never take the place of WHEN?

  25. My question is,how would a person know the difference between the true and false Christ,that is to come just before the tribulation?

    1. Author

      There are several ways to know, but one of the most important things is to watch for changes in the laws. Paul and Jesus were both very clear that they did not change the law. Deuteronomy 13 makes it clear that the laws will not be changed and Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-19 that He will come to fulfill.

      17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

      18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

      19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

      The false messiah, the false prophet, and even the dragon will attempt to change the laws. That will be the clearest indicator of their falsehood.

      God Bless you.

    2. A very easy way to tell is: If you pinch yourself and it hurts, your still in your flesh body. Therefore it ISN’T the real Jesus, because when he comes, we will be changed!!!!! So, if your not in your new glorified body, it isn’t Jesus Christ, the Son of God! Very basic, but very true! :-}

    3. This is just one point:

      The Seal of God will be put on the forehead only, while the mark of the beast is on the forehead and on the right hand. That is how you would know who the antichrist is.

      1. Do you not understand, that the seal of God in the forehead, this having the seal of God in your brain, knowing how the seals in Revelation are to come about, and what each seal stands for, and to what happens in each seal.

        1. Yes, that is the purpose of the book of Revelation, to give us hope in suffering and persecution, knowing that no matter what we go through, we have an eternal hope, and we will receive our reward if we overcome (patiently endure in our faith). The PreTrib rapture seems to be a Satanic deception to keep people from preparing for difficult times. It is the trials and suffering that strengthen our faith, that cause the root to grow deep. Those who “keep Christ’s word of patient endurance,” will kept kept during the hour of trial (whatever that is). Many believe that they have deep roots, but like Peter, who declared in his flesh that “though these may deny You, I never will; I will go to prison and die for You,” many will fall away as he did. During His “hour of trial” in the Garden, Jesus warned to watch (be diligent) and pray, lest they fall into temptation (to deny Jesus in order to avoid suffering), but they fell asleep. (To “watch” does not mean to look for a rapture, as PreTribbers suppose, but rather be diligent in our faith, being careful not to fall into deception, or to be distracted by the cares of life or the deceitfulness of wealth, or of sin). Sadly, like the seed that falls along ground, but grows not root, many people who have deceived themselves into thinking they have a strong root will quickly wilt and die in the heat of lersecution that is coming. Many of these will be “baby” Christians who PreTribbers have lied to, telling them, “Don’t worry, God won’t allow you to suffer. He won’t beat up His Bride.”
          It is true, God will not allow us to suffer beyond that which we can bear, but history is proof, that God has allowed His Bride to suffer horrible suffering. But the faithful endured and have received their reward. And their faithfulness in suffering was a testimony to the world that God is true.
          PreTribber who claim to “rightly divide” the word of God, disconnect the first three chapters of Revelation feom the rest of the book. The churches are called to overcome. Just what are they called to overcome? Those things recorded in the rest of the book. Suffering, persecution, deception, enticement to sin, all brought on by antichrists and false prophets. The book is written not only for the future, but for all the faithful throughout Church Age. Since the first century, the Church has experience suffering like birthpains, which are intermittent, increasing in intensity and frequency as time passes. In fact, Paul states that all creation groans as in the pains of childbirth, waiting for the sons of God to be revealed. Through the labor of great tribulation, that Manchild will be revealed. The resurrection is a type of childbirth, as God’s children emerge out of the womb of the earth. (Interestingly, the birthing process happens in stages. The first stage, called the “crowning,” when the Head (“Christ”) appears, happened nearly 1900 years ago, as Water (the Spirit) was poured out. The last stage, when the Body appears, will soon occur. And like a baby firstborn, the Body will be bloody.
          The Woman clothed with the Sun is our mother, the heavenly city, the New Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven from God (Galatians 4:26). The Manchild is the Church, with Christ as the Head (Colossians 1:18).

  26. MARGARET MACDONALD’S MAIN POINT

    By Dave MacPherson

    John Darby, Paul Wilkinson, and Thomas Ice are among those who have flunked the Margaret Macdonald test by covering up and misinterpreting what she (as the pretrib rapture originator) actually stated in 1830!

    My book “The Rapture Plot” discusses Margaret’s two-part main point (lines 58-63 in her 117-line account): seeing “one taken and the other left” before “THE WICKED” (Antichrist) is “revealed.”

    Hal Lindsey’s “The Rapture” correctly says she taught “a partial Rapture” – that only PART of the church will be pretribbed up.

    Walvoord’s “The Rapture Question” also describes partial rapturists as “pretribulationists,” and their charts show the “church” BEFORE AND AFTER their rapture in the same way Margaret was a “church splitter.” (Google “X-Raying Margaret,” “Margaret Macdonald’s Rapture Chart,” and “Pretrib Rapture’s Missing Lines.”)

    Both John Cardale (in Edward Irving’s journal in Dec. 1830) and John Darby (in his 1853 book) described their visits to mid-1830 meetings Margaret conducted in her home. Darby’s “recollection” was such a mirror of the many details in Cardale’s published account 23 years earlier that I’m convinced that Darby was merely copying Cardale’s details, and Darby listed all of the details except one!

    Although Darby mentioned Margaret’s “texts on overcoming” (the “tribulation” or second half of her main point), he deliberately omitted her emphasis on “the coming of the Lord” (rapture) as the church’s “deliverance” before the “judgments coming on the earth” which all visitors, except Darby, admitted was a pretrib event (the “rapture” or first half of her main point)!

    Margaret’s visitors included writers for Irving’s journal “The Morning Watch.” Within weeks it reflected Margaret’s unique and original “church/church dichotomy” (“spiritual” church members raptured and “less spiritual” church members left behind) when it saw the “Philadelphia” church raptured BEFORE “the great tribulation” and the “Laodicea” church left on earth.

    Well, if Darby could be a revisionist with Margaret’s words, so could Wilkerson and Ice today.

    After Joe Schimmel’s Good Fight Ministries produced the “Left Behind or Led Astray?” video (the greatest video exposure ever of pretribism’s dishonesty-riddled history!), Britisher Paul Wilkinson savagely attacked it in an uber-unscholarly way in a video produced by the Berean Call Ministry titled “Left Behind or Led Astray? – Exposed.”

    In order to please his think-alike idol, John Darby, Wilkinson deliberately stopped his quotation of Margaret at line 45 so that he could omit the first (pretrib) part of her main point in order to be able to falsely declare that she advocated “a post-tribulation Rapture”!

    Thomas Ice has been even more nervy than Wilkinson, his British “twin.” When Ice quoted Margaret’s 117-line account in the Dallas Seminary journal he omitted ALL OF HER MAIN POINT but made up for it by quoting just BEFORE and AFTER it! (Ice’s “PhD” was “earned” at the unaccredited Tyndale Seminary in Texas which, according to World Net Daily, was heavily fined by the State of Texas for illegally issuing degrees – too many degrees for the Texas heat!

    Finally, if Ice, Wilkinson and other pretrib escape artists love Jews and Israel as much as they say they do, why don’t they want to be on earth during “Jacob’s trouble” to aid and comfort Jews and others? (Some Google items related to this include “Greatest Hebrew-Christian Scholars NOT Pretrib,” “Roots of Warlike Christian Zionism,” and “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty.”

    / What you’ve just read is an eye-opening piece I ran into on the net. Reactions, anyone? /

  27. For the real essence of what the early Church Fathers taught, there are several eye-opening articles on the net including “Famous Rapture Watchers” and “Grant Jeffrey’s Apocalypse Debacle.”

  28. WHEN WILL THE RAPTURE TAKE PLACE?

    When will the rapture take place? Will it be the pre tribulation or Will it be pre wrath? Let’s go to scripture shall we! Matthew 24:29-31/ 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Revelation 6:12/ 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; In the 6th seal revelation 6:12 says that the sun is turned as black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. This is the very same thing that happens in Matthew 24:29 were the sun was darkened and the moon did not give its light, so we know that Matthew 24:29 was talking of the 6th seal. So let’s see the whole deal. Matthew 24:29-31 is means “Immediately after the tribulation of those days(1260 days) the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light (6th seal) and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
     And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trump and they shall gather together his elect… After in Matthew 24:31 Jesus says that the elect will we gathered by a sound of a trump. Revelation 11:18/ 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Notice this is talking about after the seventh trumpet happened. That means this proofs a post tribulation, and disprove a pre tribulation. Before verse 18, in verse 15 the seventh trumpet blew. How could Christ reward us after the 7th trumpet blew, if we were at heaven just prior to the tribulation? 1 john 3:2/ 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 is saying that we don’t know how we will be like but we will be like our lord Jesus Christ when he APPEARS. When does the Lord Jesus Christ appear? He appears at his second coming.Revelation 7:9-14/ 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
    10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
    11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
    12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
    13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
    14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in. Notice this great multitude came to heaven at the 6th seal. So that means, that the elect(the church) who are gathered by the Angels in Matthew 24:29-31 are the same once as the great multitude seen in revelation 7:9-14, since the elect are gathered at the 6th seal, which in revelation 7:9-14 the great multitude came to heaven at the 6th seal. This perfectly matches a post tribulation rapture and proofs the pre tribulation rapture is false. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18/ 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. We see that Paul is saying the We that remain unto the coming of the lord shall be caught up together in the clouds to meet the lord in the air. When is the coming of the Lord? After the tribulation. Mark 13:24-27/ 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
    25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
    26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
    27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Again we know that when the sun shall be darkened and the moon not give her light will happen at the 6th seal. Mark 13:24-27 is identical to Matthew 24:29-31. How could Angels gather us the elect (the church) after the tribulation, when we were gathered just prior to the tribulation? Matthew 24:5-6/ 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
    6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. What Jesus is trying to say is that many shall come in the name of Christ and say “I am Christ” and shall deceive many, but THE END IS NOT YET. So because of this i believe of a possibility of their being a false pre tribulation rapture we a false Christ comes and deceives many. Now I find something very intresting. This is that when Jesus said that many shall claim to be Christ and deceived many, after he said the there would be wars and rumors of wars. That perfectly fits the first two seals. Revelation 6:2-4/ 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
    3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
    4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. The first horse rider is seen as one who rides in a white horse with a crown of gold. We also see Jesus Christ riding a white horse and wearing crowns of Gold. So I believe this represents is the false messiah(antichrist) who says according to Matthew “I am Christ” and deceives many. The second horse rider of revelation is mentioned as one that has a great sword, in a red dragon, and again I believe this represents according to Matthew the wars and rumors of wars. So let’s see the whole deal. Matthew 24:5-6 “for many shall come in my name saying “I am Christ” and shall deceive many(1st seal) and ye shall hear wars and rumors of wars(2nd seal). Now what is causing these pre tribulation supporters to believe in this deception? Revelation 3:10/ 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. The part underlined is where pre tribulation supporters look at. Even if we don’t know what this verse means, we know that this verse cannot support a pre tribulation rapture since scripture can’t contradict itself. “Keep thee” in this verse does not mean “take thee”. So if this verse really does support the pre tribulation rapture, then why didn’t John simply write in revelation “because thou hast kept my word of patience, I will also TAKE THEE from the hour of temptation… What ever John is referring to as “keep thee” it either means “protect thee” or “GAURD thee” because it cannot be a pre tribulation rapture. If this verse was supporting the pre tribulation position, then it would say “caught up in the clouds”, “gather the elect”, or “take thee” as other verses such as Matthew 24:29-31 use. Another thing the pre tribulation supporters use for their evidence is the 24 elders. Revelation 4:4/ 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. Some things the pre tribulation supporters use as evidence this is the church age is that they seat on 24 seats(thrones) and were crowns of Gold in their head. Well it is true that old testament saints were never promised crowns of Gold, or thrones, and we church saints are, but it would be wrong to assume that these are church age saints. There were some Israelites who wear faithful to God such as King David. Some rewards are mentioned in the scriptures of what we will receive, but there is much more we don’t know. And we know this can’t either of support the pre tribulation rapture, because scriptures cannot contradict itself, plus what better matches the rapture of the church is the great multitude of revelation 7. Remember the sun shall be darkened, and the moon into blood in the 6th seal. Now notice that it says “before the Lord comes”. We know that the 6th seal is after the tribulation, so this proofs both the pre wrath and post tribulation. So I agree with both post tribulation and pre wrath rapture. The pre wrath rapture position is after the tribulation however before God’s wrath. So let’s see the whole deal. Acts 2:29 is trying to say “the sun shall turn into darkness, and the moon into blood (6th seal), before that great and notable day of the Lord (God’s wrath) come. Joel 2:31/ 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
    Joel is again as did others scriptures talking of the 6th seal. So now that we’ve gone into scripture we know that the post tribulation- pre wrath rapture, however we know that the pre tribulation rapture is false.

  29. In Mark 13:23 Jesus states he has told us everything concerning the end times. He never told us that there would be a pretrib rapture, yet in my more than 25 years researching eschatology I don’t think I have ever seen where anyone has used this verse to defend post trib. God gives us all the the tools we will ever need to endure the tribulation in his word. The Bible was written to give peace, comfort and hope and to give people the strength they need to die for him. I believe most of the Bible was written for the persecuted church. Jesus died for us he will gladly give us the strength we need to die for him.

    I am convinced the notion of pretrib rapture was designed by early framers of the New World Order and was meant to decieve people. I believe they are still pushing this deceptive agenda today.

    1. You are speaking 100% truth.I am amazed by the lies and deception these people believe this garbage about.So many dont take the time to study it out,thank you for this article.

  30. Although I believe the pre-trib rapture is a threat, there should not be separation between the body of Christ. The most reliable evidence to see if someone is saved is not whether someone believes in the pre trib or not, but whether a person is bearing the fruit of the sprit or not. Again I don’t agree with the pre- trib rapture, and I think it is a silly mistake to believe it, but remember as it is written even the elect could be deceived. If you don’t trust me, please at least go to Galatians 5:22-23. Below I copied and pasted an article I did a while ago.

    When will the rapture take place? Will it be the pre tribulation or Will it be pre wrath? Let’s go to scripture shall we! Matthew 24:29-31/ 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Revelation 6:12/ 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; In the 6th seal revelation 6:12 says that the sun is turned as black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. This is the very same thing that happens in Matthew 24:29 were the sun was darkened and the moon did not give its light, so we know that Matthew 24:29 was talking of the 6th seal. So let’s see the whole deal. Matthew 24:29-31 is means “Immediately after the tribulation of those days(1260 days) the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light (6th seal) and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trump and they shall gather together his elect… After in Matthew 24:31 Jesus says that the elect will we gathered by a sound of a trump. Revelation 11:18/ 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Notice this is talking about after the seventh trumpet happened. That means this proofs a post tribulation, and disprove a pre tribulation. Before verse 18, in verse 15 the seventh trumpet blew. How could Christ reward us after the 7th trumpet blew, if we were at heaven just prior to the tribulation? 1 john 3:2/ 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 is saying that we don’t know how we will be like but we will be like our lord Jesus Christ when he APPEARS. When does the Lord Jesus Christ appear? He appears at his second coming.Revelation 7:9-14/ 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in. Notice this great multitude came to heaven at the 6th seal. So that means, that the elect(the church) who are gathered by the Angels in Matthew 24:29-31 are the same once as the great multitude seen in revelation 7:9-14, since the elect are gathered at the 6th seal, which in revelation 7:9-14 the great multitude came to heaven at the 6th seal. This perfectly matches a post tribulation rapture and proofs the pre tribulation rapture is false. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18/ 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. We see that Paul is saying the We that remain unto the coming of the lord shall be caught up together in the clouds to meet the lord in the air. When is the coming of the Lord? After the tribulation. Mark 13:24-27/ 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Again we know that when the sun shall be darkened and the moon not give her light will happen at the 6th seal. Mark 13:24-27 is identical to Matthew 24:29-31. How could Angels gather us the elect (the church) after the tribulation, when we were gathered just prior to the tribulation? Matthew 24:5-6/ 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. What Jesus is trying to say is that many shall come in the name of Christ and say “I am Christ” and shall deceive many, but THE END IS NOT YET. So because of this i believe of a possibility of their being a false pre tribulation rapture we a false Christ comes and deceives many. Now I find something very intresting. This is that when Jesus said that many shall claim to be Christ and deceived many, after he said the there would be wars and rumors of wars. That perfectly fits the first two seals. Revelation 6:2-4/ 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. The first horse rider is seen as one who rides in a white horse with a crown of gold. We also see Jesus Christ riding a white horse and wearing crowns of Gold. So I believe this represents is the false messiah(antichrist) who says according to Matthew “I am Christ” and deceives many. The second horse rider of revelation is mentioned as one that has a great sword, in a red dragon, and again I believe this represents according to Matthew the wars and rumors of wars. So let’s see the whole deal. Matthew 24:5-6 “for many shall come in my name saying “I am Christ” and shall deceive many(1st seal) and ye shall hear wars and rumors of wars(2nd seal). Now what is causing these pre tribulation supporters to believe in this deception? Revelation 3:10/ 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. The part underlined is where pre tribulation supporters look at. Even if we don’t know what this verse means, we know that this verse cannot support a pre tribulation rapture since scripture can’t contradict itself. Another thing the pre tribulation supporters use for their evidence is the 24 elders. Revelation 4:4/ 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. Some things the pre tribulation supporters use as evidence this is the church age is that they seat on 24 seats(thrones) and were crowns of Gold in their head. Well it is true that old testament saints were never promised crowns of Gold, or thrones, and we church saints are, but it would be wrong to assume that these are church age saints. There were some Israelites who wear faithful to God such as King David. Some rewards are mentioned in the scriptures of what we will receive, but there is much more we don’t know. And we know this can’t either of support the pre tribulation rapture, because scriptures cannot contradict itself, plus what better matches the rapture of the church is the great multitude of revelation 7. Remember the sun shall be darkened, and the moon into blood in the 6th seal. Now notice that it says “before the Lord comes”. We know that the 6th seal is after the tribulation, so this proofs both the pre wrath and post tribulation. So I agree with both post tribulation and pre wrath rapture. The pre wrath rapture position is after the tribulation however before God’s wrath. So let’s see the whole deal. Acts 2:29 is trying to say “the sun shall turn into darkness, and the moon into blood (6th seal), before that great and notable day of the Lord (God’s wrath) come. Joel 2:31/ 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joel is again as did others scriptures talking of the 6th seal. So now that we’ve gone into scripture we know that the post tribulation- pre wrath rapture, however we know that the pre tribulation rapture is false.

  31. I KNOW THAT ALL SCRPTURE IS GOD BREATHED.

    SO al the scripture that relates to the RAPTURE are true. That also means the Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, and Post Trib scriptures are true. Yet there will be only one Rapture. When put them all together you see a different picture. The rapture will occur before the WRATH OF CHRIST, ad in the middle of those last seven years, and at the last trump.

  32. I just wish to say thank you from my heart for doing so much to get these truths to the people. You also brought deep and ringing clarity to many of my visions I’d had since childhood on the end times when I began this preparation. I d always known I would help during the persecution and would die a horribly death in another 20 years from now, at most, and wondered why people were falsely told in churchs everywhere that they had nothing to fear. There are many warnings in the bible along with encouragement to hold fast and prepare. Ive seen a three day night where great horrors occur before the Christ appears and have tried to live off the land, growing small livestock and having my boys collect firewood, shovel compost, work the land manually, and have no internet at home except for research, going without many conveniences to be strong. I’ve removed demons from sick people in the name of God, and blessed many homes with ancient oils of cedar, hyssop, and clove as they repel darkness. Could I ask one thing for clarification?
    Ive seen an army of humans carrying the swords of Michael and going into battle against the darkness, girded with the words of the bible, which was why I never thought pre trib was real, as I felt the devout believers were these armies. Is this true or a possibility? That is why Ive always studied the bible, and taught my sons from it.
    Many thanks for risking yourself for the greater good of man. The clouds are now forming over CERN, and darkness is upon us. Stop hiding your light under a bushel, be a beacon for the lost, people. We came here in this lifetime for this.

  33. I believe we are in the last year of the tribulation. The “falling away” can also mean “defection” which is defined as “the desertion of one’s country or cause in favor of an opposing one.” A synonym is also “flight.” Here is one of the best tellings I have heard of why this is the last year of the tribulation. Many people are trying very hard to discredit her so I believe she must be very close to the right path. You will need to watch even more than this video and there are additional links below the video in the description section. Her explanations of things in the Bible are amazing and the more I research them, the more I feel she may be right:

    1. Im not sure how you can believe we are in the last year of the tribulation.
      Where is the tribulation? Where is the real persecution? Where is the antichrist?
      Nope…. It hasn’t even begun.

  34. This biggest threat to the people professing Christ is a just war and cause doctrine imagine the amount of people whom are active in that belief compared to any other doctrine! And how many whom will become apostate from the Faith due to embracing the doctrine without repentance and confession!

    And yes the justwar and cause doctrines are foreign to the New Covenant lifestyle, but God does reserve two Christians in Rev 11 to harm and kill divinely. But everyone else must stay non-violent unto death whether by the hand of another or naturally. God allows us to use the governments for our good as Paul did using his Roman citizenship to avoid further punishment but also used them to appeal to a higher court to keep himself in custody and under continuous protection from those whom plotted to kill him by an oath. He informed the Roman guard of the plot against his life not knowing the outcome but thankfully no one was killed when they decided to escort Paul to Rome with a good size military force. From these examples we know that God uses the secular governments to punish evil and so we must with wisdom use their assistance wisely when threatened, if we can individually avoid conflict we must and if we are able to inform what God established to punish evil then do so if a life is at stake as Paul did and if you are with others and cannot flee nor inform an officer then with love, risk your neck non-violently to allow your other loved ones to flee as priscilla and aquilla did for Paul.

    So not only does God call all but two to habitually walk in non-violence but what one can do In sketchy situations-Paul being a good example to imitate besides Jesus whom Paul is imitating. God can forgive those whom have been caught up in this doctrine if they are saved. To follow this doctrine leads to physical murder and unjust hate, which is likened to murder and sense David being once a murderer as a saint was able to be forgiving, so can anyone whom is saved and no longer walks in such heresy and murderous hate. May you do so.

  35. The most dangerous doctrine is the one that has you deny the very God you claim redeemed you. This is what the pre-trib does through dispensationalism and dual-covenant theology, they teach the under the old covenant salvation was by the means of Faith+self-works and under the the new covenant during the dispensation of grace, they are saved by Grace through Faith + nothing. When the church is raptured before the reveal of the antichrist, the 2nd Covenant pauses along with grace ending. So everyone through the great trib and wrath must revert back to the old covenant system and be saved through the means of Faith+self-works until the New Jerusalem.

    The pre-trib with all of its bells and whistles with confusion and complexity, boils down to two different ways to the Father when it has always been one way through Faith in the works of Messiah:The God-Man, Eternal Son of God and Kingly High Priest Jesus of Nazareth.

  36. [Wonderful blog, judeochristianchurch. Here’s a truly different prophecy piece found not long ago on this non-pretrib site in England.:]

  37. Those that teach that the Church is going to go through the Great Tribulation are like the pharisees. The pharisees were the teachers, the experts of the scriptures, but they could neither see or understand. It was written in the scriptures of Jesus, but for all of their knowing, they could not understand the prophecies. The Bible isn’t some academic text book. You can’t understand this book apart from the Holy Spirit. You don’t learn this bible like you learn geometry. It was right before their eyes and yet they could not see or understand the scriptures. The rapture is clearly in scripture, but like the pharisees, you can neither see or understand.

  38. Amen brother can’t agree with you more, pray that God would open the hearts and minds of His people

  39. Pure trib mid trib or post? All three! Hidden in plain sight! ( but only a few see this!) First Mat’ 24.38-39 confirmed with Mat’ 25.5-6 ( note this is before the wedding! And is not the groom Christ?) Second AFTER THE WEDDING! Luke 12.36-37. Then finally at the end of the system of things Rev’ 16.12 ( after tev6th trumpet )

  40. Don’t be deceived, rapture / pre-trib is false.

    Study Daniel 9:24-27. Daniel wrote his testimony 500-600 years before the Birth of the Christ (Jesus).

    “24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

    This was speaking of the coming of Christ the first time and how the second temple would be destroyed. Daniel has nothing to do with current events, it is Old Testament.

    ————————————————————————————–

    1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 – The Coming of the Lord

    “13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,4 that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.”

    This passage mentions no timeline what so ever. Even so, it says “Last Trumpet”, and the only place you will find trumpets (the 7th trumpet) is in Revelation 11 after the two witnesses are killed.

    —————————————————————————

    Revelation 3:10 – To the Church in Philadelphia
    “Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.”

    And what about the other 6 churches? These are churches in Asia, not America.

    ——————————————————————-

    1 Corinthians 15:51-52
    “51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.”

    Again, at the last trumpet. How many trumpets do you think we’ll have to hear before “the last one”?

    ———————————————————————–

    1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

    “For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.”

    Again, no timeline here. This time it is the trumpet of God, and not necessarily “the last”. Still, this could happen at the end of tribulation. No timeline.

    —————————————————————————-

    1 Thessalonians 1:9-10
    “9 For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.”

    Yes, judgment, not tribulation. Still, this passage has no timeline. Even so, God’s wrath is post “last trumpet” of Revelation. Perhaps this implies the “Bowl Judgments – God’s wrath”

    —————————————————————————-

    1 Thessalonians 5:1-9
    “1 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. 2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you bare not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.”

    Still, no timeline. Just because believers are taken up suddenly, doesn’t mean it’s before tribulation. Did the Jews at Auschwitz know when U.S. Soldiers in WW2 would deliver them?

    Imagine how much more apostasy there will be when tribulation does start and everyone that was hoping to get zapped away will just give up because they put all their hope on a false doctrine?

    Narrow is the gate that leads to life.

  41. Thank you for this teaching. I was beginning to doubt my belief with so many preaching/dreaming/visioning pre rapture. Why Christians believe we are all going home before all hell hits the fan is mind blowing and very isolating. But hey that’s ok when you can search google and find one is not alone in their belief that we are in for a rocky ride.

  42. Hi JD,

    It was nice to read this.

    I’m preparing to publish a book about this subject. It’s a project I started over five years ago. My desire is to help prepare the Church (whoever God gives ears to hear) to be overcomers in the Tribulation. I am including a lot of Scripture from both the Old and New Testaments to show why we can be confident in what I like to call the Post-Tribulation Resurrection-Gathering at the Return of Christ and why what we believe now (pre-Tribulation) is important.

    There’s a website called Post Trib People, if anyone is interested. Several people put up their theories of how the Tribulation will progress. Mine is different than those I’ve seen. They have a contact list and links to people’s books.

    @Luke17_37 (Twitter)

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